About Our Guest- Evan Hirsch-Fix Your Fatigue

Dr. Evan Hirsch is a World Renowned Fatigue Expert, Best-selling Author, International Speaker, Founder and CEO of the International Center for Energy & Fatigue and the host of the Fix Your Fatigue Podcast.

After suffering with fatigue for 5 years and seeing multiple doctors without success, Dr. Evan developed innovative strategies that dramatically enhanced his energy and resolved his fatigue.

He has over a decade of experience working with those who have tried everything to resolve their fatigue without success. By addressing all of the real causes of fatigue, Dr. Evan has been able to help thousands of exhausted people resolve their fatigue naturally so they can achieve their potential in life and avoid a life of regret. He is now on a mission to help 1 million more people through his international online programs and the training of providers.

Dr. Evan has been featured in MindBodyGreen and on over 30 podcasts and summits. One of his interviews has had over 73k views.

In 2018, he transitioned to a virtual practice so that he could work remotely with people around the world. He now helps other doctors do the same so that they can have more impact, more success and a greater quality of life.

He has lectured nationally and internationally on topics in integrative and functional medicine and is board certified in family medicine and integrative medicine.

When he’s not at the office, you can find him singing musicals, playing basketball, traveling, dancing hip hop, and spending time with his wife and daughter.

Full Podcast Transcription

Evan Hirsch 00:13
We’re looking at really 20 plus different causes of fatigue that have to be remedied it once again it comes back to those causes. Hopefully people are listening to this are getting this drummed into their heads that they really have to find all those causes. But that’s the reason because if you’re working with a doc who doesn’t work with mold, or doesn’t work with chemicals, it doesn’t work with heavy metals or doesn’t work with infections. And you have those things guess what, you’re never going to get better if you don’t look for it right, we learn this in medical school, if you don’t look for it, you’re never gonna diagnose it.

Diva Nagula 02:02
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of From Doctor to Patient. Today I am joined with Dr. Evan Hirsch. He is a world renowned fatigue expert, best selling author, international speaker, founder and CEO of the International Center for Energy Fatigue, and the host of the Fix Your Fatigue podcast. After suffering with fatigue for five years and seeing multiple doctors without success and develop innovative strategies that dramatically enhances energy and resolve his fatigue. He has over a decade of experience working with those who have tried everything to resolve their fatigue without success. By addressing all of the real causes of fatigue Dr. Evan has been able to help 1000s of exhausted people resolve their fatigue naturally, so they can achieve their potential in life and avoid a life of regret. He’s now on a mission to help 1 million more people through his international online programs and the training of providers. Dr. Evan has been featured in mindbodygreen, and on over 30 podcasts and summits. One of his interviews is that over 73,000 views. In 2018, he transitioned to a virtual practice so that he could work remotely with people around the world. He now helps other doctors do the same so that they can have more impact, more success and a greater quality of life. He’s lectured nationally & internationally on topics in integrative functional medicine, and is board certified in family medicine and integrative medicine. When he’s not in the office, you can find him seeing musicals, playing basketball, traveling, dancing hip hop and spending time with his wife and daughter. Dr. Evan, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

Evan Hirsch 03:58
Thanks so much for having me on Dr. Diva, I am well.

Diva Nagula 04:02
So fatigue is a really interesting topic to discuss, not only to discuss, but to be a specialist of, because there’s so many people that just suffer from just generalized fatigue. And you think that you know, it’s just normal way of living. But now we have reasons to be fatigued and reasons that may be attributed to chronic disease processes or issues with poor micronutrients, or any of the above combination and much more. How did you get into this fatigue topic? I know you had your own personal history of fatigue. Can you get into that a little bit about your own personal issues and your battles?

Evan Hirsch 04:43
Absolutely well, and it all really started when I got into residency so I was already holistically minded. I had, in medical school, I had done my first training in complimentary medicine, which at that point was hypnotherapy. And I met somebody who taught me about holistic medicine. So I started with the American Holistic Medical Association. But I got into residency, and I met my wife about a month in. And about three months into our relationship, she couldn’t get out of bed. And she had fatigue for three years. And I felt incredibly powerless. I was going through a family medicine residency program, and supposed to be at the top of my game surrounded by all of these mentors. And I would ask them, and nobody really had any help to offer at that time. Besides, you know, could it be hepatitis? Could it be thyroid? Could it be congestive heart, you know, a lot of these conventional issues, maybe it was a lung issue, but we ruled out all of those. And it wasn’t that wasn’t the case. So she went on her journey. And fortunately, she was mostly better after three years. But then I graduated residency, we got married, I had a kid, started a practice. And then a couple years later, I crashed hard and had fatigue for five years. And, you know, my brain fog and fatigue was so bad at some points, I couldn’t even remember anything about the patient. As soon as they walked out of the door, it was a good thing that I had an electronic medical record where I was documenting everything. And I felt like I was providing pretty good care, because I was in the moment and I could make good decisions. But as soon as they left, like that short term memory was gone. And then I also I felt really defeated and felt a lot of shame and guilt at home, because we’ve got this newborn child who’s like “daddy play with me” and all I could do is lie on the couch when I came home, I couldn’t help out my wife “as you know, she’s just coming out of her fatigue several years prior, and I can’t even do the dishes. You know, I’m just surviving trying to provide for the family. And so it was incredibly debilitating. So I went on this path of, I finally got my head together. And I haven’t been good about taking care of myself up until that point, you know, in prioritizing my health, but I was already practicing functional medicine, I was already helping some people with fatigue. But I realized there was more out there. And so I started applying what I learned to myself, started getting more into Environmental Medicine, learning more about heavy metals, chemicals, mold, infections, did specific trainings on each one of those, in addition to the integrative medicine in the functional medicine, the holistic medicine trainings that I had done, and I started applying those to myself. And I was amazed by what I saw, I just saw continued improvement, I started applying it to my patients, and saw continued improvement in them and resolution of some really complex issues. And then I realized I had to share this with the world.

So I wrote a book, which has now been a best seller on Amazon. And now I’m on a mission to help a million people resolve their fatigue. And right now, because I practice virtually all over the world. I have, you know, about a third or more of my clients are in the EU and beyond. We just had somebody sign up the other day from Singapore. So, you know, there’s these protocols, when done naturally can really help people across the globe.

Diva Nagula 07:53
And what is your success rate?

Evan Hirsch 07:55
So that’s a great question. Because the, you know, the there’s always some stipulations to that. And part of that has to do with the ability for somebody to follow through with the program. So when somebody goes through the process, and they’re able to find all of their causes, because that’s step one of the process, which we’ll get into, and they’re able to find all of their causes, and they’re able to take the treatment to completion for all of those causes, then the success rate is above 90%.

Diva Nagula 08:23 Wow, that’s awesome.

Evan Hirsch 08:25
Because it’s all about the causes, right? It makes sense whether you’ve got a human resources issue at work, or whether you’re a mechanic and you’ve got a problem with your car, if you can find your causes, and we’ll get into those. And if you have a very broad differential, where you’re making sure that you’re looking at all of these causes, then your likelihood of success is going to be really, really good. You know, so I’m looking at 33 potential causes, which is 10 categories of these potential causes. And so the likelihood that there is a cause outside of that, I’m sure there are some, but they’re low. So, you know, that’s my take on it.

Diva Nagula 09:02
And I would imagine that once, if once you start including their fatigue, you’re also unmasking
all these other conditions that they’re suffering from and resolving those as well.

Evan Hirsch 09:13 Right.

Diva Nagula 09:14
Yeah, they go hand in hand. And in your history of helping folks and fatigue, you know, is there a one or two common items, disease processes or issues that are causing the fatigue symptoms?

Evan Hirsch 09:29
Yeah, so the, the big ones that everybody has is adrenal gland dysfunction, and mitochondrial dysfunction. So the adrenal gland is responsible for mitigating all the stress in your life and in your body. And so that can be mental, emotional or physical stressors. And so we know about mental emotional stressors, but the physical stressors can be things like the environmental toxins, what I call the usual suspects, heavy metals, chemicals, mold and infections, all of those end up causing stress on the human organism. And they also, all of those, also end up causing damage to the mitochondria, which is the energy center of every cell in the body, except for red blood cells. And they produce about 70% or more of our ongoing energy. So everybody has adrenal and mitochondrial dysfunction. And then the other ones, everybody’s, you know, of those 10 categories that I mentioned, everybody has at least one thing from like 8 to 10 of those categories. Depending on how severe your fatigue is.

Diva Nagula 10:33
Interesting, you would think that, from a common lay person that we think, Oh, well, it’s, I’m fatigued, so I need to address my sleep, you know, by sleep better than I’m going to resolve the fatigue. But I’m assuming in your situation when you’re dealing with folks is really the fatigue is causing a sleep disruption, which is also causing increased fatigue. So it’s a real cycle that you have to break.

Evan Hirsch 10:57
Yes. And another way of saying it is that the causes of fatigue are also causes of the sleep dysfunction. So as we go through, and we start to fix all of these different causes, the sleep naturally gets better. And I actually get people to sleep better at night by giving them things in the morning, because oftentimes, it’s a circadian rhythm issue where they’re not waking up with the energy that they need. And so consequently, you can’t have this nice rhythm of energy in the morning, and then sleep at night. So then the body gets confused. And it’s like, when am I supposed to be awake? When am I supposed to be asleep? And so you’re getting sleep wake during the day and at night?

Diva Nagula 11:38
And others other than just being exhausted? Are there any other symptoms that can indicate to
a person that they are suffering from fatigue?

Evan Hirsch 11:51
Good question. So there are other symptoms. And any, I would say any mystery symptom that you have that hasn’t been explained to you, you’re scratching your head or doc scratching your head can be a potential cause of fatigue. So for example, there are especially with the infections, this is really interesting, where there are certain infections like bartonella, where you can have pain on the bottom of the feet usually misdiagnosis, plantar fasciitis, muscle cramps, usually in the calves, usually at night, hard time falling asleep, and or staying asleep. Usually some issues with anxiety, depression, sometimes you’ll have some stretch marks on the body, I was looking in a Facebook group the other day, and it was an adrenal group. And you know, there’s 200 comments on this post of classic bartonella rash, which looks like stretch marks, and you haven’t had any weight fluctuations. And then there’s and then oftentimes, these people have thyroid so that, you know, that’s like a conglomeration of symptoms that are associated with a particular infection, or with an infection like babesia, which will cause spontaneous sweating. Usually, you’re the hottest person in the room, oftentimes, you have shortness of breath, or a chronic cough. And then you have really bad sleep and anxiety to the point of panic and or depression to the point of suicidal thoughts. And so that’s just from one infection, which is commonly known as like the malaria of North America. So, you know, if you have some of those symptoms, that oftentimes it can be due to these different causes.

Diva Nagula 13:22
Interesting. And when you’re seeing folks that are suffering from fatigue, are they kind of like the end of the rope, so to speak, where they’ve tried everything? Or are you catching them, you know, early on or middle or kind of like a kind of like the whole spectrum?

Evan Hirsch 13:39
They’re usually more advanced in the sense that they have often, you know, most of the time when people they’ll look online, they’ll say, Why am I so tired, and they’ll get some, you know, tips from Web MD on, you should sleep more, you should stop drinking coffee, stop drinking alcohol, eat more vegetables, drink more water. And if they do those things, and they don’t have success, then oftentimes they’ll move on to functional medicine doc or naturopath or a local person, and looking for that. And so that’s sometimes I’ll catch people there. But oftentimes, they’ve already seen a doc or maybe they’ve seen a couple of docs, you know, I’ve had people who’ve seen 30 docs who come to see me, and it’s just, you know, once again, it’s all about the reason why they haven’t had success is because they haven’t found all of their causes.

Diva Nagula 14:25
Got it? And what kind of a workup does a patient undergo when they’re being treated or, you know, workup consistent to various stages for fatigue? Is it a multitude of bloodwork and diagnostic tests that may include x rays? Or do you have a specific core group of battery of diagnostic tools that you use?

Evan Hirsch 14:49
So it’s always a combination of what we learned in medical school, which is the subjective plus the objective, which is what’s your history? What’s your symptoms? What’s your labs And what’s your physical diagnosis? And now what we learned in medical school, which is still something I agree with, there’s a lot that I don’t. But one of the things that I agree with is that, that process 90% of your diagnosis or determining what causes you have is going to come from your subjective experience, so your history and your symptoms. So a big part of the program is that you can actually figure out 75% of all of the causes that you have, just based off of your symptoms.

Diva Nagula 15:28 Wow.

Evan Hirsch 15:30
Yeah, so it’s, you know, these are symptoms besides fatigue. So you know, there are very specific symptoms that are associated with adrenal gland dysfunction, and thyroid and these different infections that I talked about, and chemicals and molds. Now the 25%, that you can’t determine, mainly based off of your symptoms, need labs. And so those lab evaluations, yes, there are there’s bloodwork to determine vitamins and nutrients, but I do a lot with and hormones, too. But I do a lot with urine testing, and stool testing, because as an environmental physician, I’m focused on finding all of these environmental toxins, the heavy metals, the chemicals, the molds, really have to be assessed by labs. And the best way to do that oftentimes is through the urine.

Diva Nagula 16:21
And are you finding people are suffering more fatigue? You know, over the last few, I would say, maybe five to 10 years, versus beyond those five to 10 years? And if so, do you think it’s an accumulation of just our environments, you know, and our increase in toxic burden that we’re all suffering from?

Evan Hirsch 16:41
That’s a big part of it. I definitely think that that’s the case that we’re getting more toxic as life goes on. And a lot of it has to do with the exposures that we have, you know, whether it’s mercury from mercury fillings, you know, they call them silver fillings, even though they’re 50%, silver and 50%. Mercury, because it sounds bad to call them mercury fillings when Mercury is a neurotoxin. Right? So, yes, there is definitely this increase in the toxicities, there’s increase in stress, you can no longer survive on just a one family income or one worker income family. I don’t know how to describe that. But there’s a lot more stress that’s involved now with social media, with news and all the hyperbole. And so a lot of these things are really distracting us from those things. And those habits that really keep us healthiest and happiest.

Diva Nagula 17:40
In your opinion. Why is it so hard to treat fatigue?

Evan Hirsch 17:47
So the reason why it’s so hard is because out of those 10 categories that we talked about, everybody has a cause from 8 or 10 of those categories. Now, the challenge is that everybody has different causes. So you know, Joe Schmoe over here is going to have causes 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. And somebody else over here can have causes 2,4,6,8, and 10, which means that their treatments are going to be very different. Okay. The other thing is that if you look at those sub causes under those top 10 categories, we’re looking at really 20 plus different causes of fatigue that have to be remedied. So it’s like having 20 nails in the bottom of your foot. And we pull out the adrenal nail, and we pull out the mitochondrial nail, because we’re supporting those thyroid issues, we pull out the thyroid nail. But then you still have, you know, and we pull out the lifestyle habit nail, because you’re doing your best at eating good food and drinking water and avoiding gluten and dairy and all these things. But then we still have heavy metals, chemicals, molds and infections. And so it still hurts when you’re walking. So it once again, it comes back to those causes. Hopefully people are listening to this or getting this drummed into their heads that they really have to find all those causes. But that’s the reason because if like you’re working with a doc who doesn’t work with mold, or doesn’t work with chemicals, or doesn’t work with heavy metals, or doesn’t work with infections, and you have those things, guess what, you’re never going to get better if you don’t look for it, right? We’ve learned this in medical school, if you don’t look for it, you’re never going to diagnose it.

Diva Nagula 19:16
And what I like about the approach, it’s very customizable, right. It’s not a blanket in terms of, you know, follow these things, and you’re going to improve fatigue. I mean, that’s that’s kind of what you would see on some sort of online bulletin board or forum, when your approaches is very customizable to the individual where you’re actually getting to the root cause of the issue. You know, unmasking all those root causes and then eventually working to improve their conditions and which inevitably, not only makes them healthier as an individual, but it also improves their fatigue, which is what they’re coming to see you for.

Evan Hirsch 19:51
Absolutely, yeah, thank you for for appreciating it. Because that’s been it’s been my life’s work and what I thought about is how do I individualize this? You know what Am I doing when I’m sitting down with people? And how do I extrapolate that, you know, and so I’ve kind of, I’ve created an online program that includes a bunch of different support. And I realized that in order to help a million people resolve their fatigue that I had to have, you know, something that didn’t require one on ones with me all the time, right, so that if I have a program that can tailor it individually to the person where they can go through, and they can figure out exactly which causes they have, but doesn’t require me to do that work for them, then I can help so many more people.

Diva Nagula 20:33
That’s amazing. Would you be able to comment on a case or two of your clients? And I’m just curious how your work up begins and how long it takes them through the process. And then obviously, as a follow up, and you know, love to hear about some success stories?

Evan Hirsch 21:56
Absolutely. So do you have a particular case where you want me to present one?

Diva Nagula 22:00 Oh, please present one.

Evan Hirsch 22:01
Okay, yeah, that’s a great idea. So let’s see, let’s talk about look, we’re gonna call her Jody. And she is 45 years old. She is a nurse. And she came to me with awful sleep energy at about a four out of 10 where 10 is ideal energy. So really was having a hard time working her shifts as a nurse. And then she let’s see, she had problems sleeping, she had energy issues. Then she also had she called herself a bartonella nightmare. So a lot of these symptoms that I mentioned before with bartonella. She had pain on the bottom of her feet that came and went doesn’t have to be there all the time. She had muscle cramps, that would wake her up at night doesn’t have to be all the time it would happen a couple times a month. She had thyroid issues, she was actually hyperthyroid when she first came to see me. And then ended up being hypothyroid after that, and we can talk about that. And then and then she also had itching such an itching in the ears itching in the anus. And so when I heard those symptoms, I was like, Okay, well I know that we need to replace adrenals in mitochondria. So then we started replacing those, and that helped a little bit that got up to like a five out of 10. Then we saw with the thyroid, that she was hyperthyroid. She also had some gastric upset and I had recently read an article around autoimmunity or to thyroid especially hyperthyroid or graves disease. That was from H. pylori, so bacteria that exists in the gut. And so I went ahead and I treated her for that presumptively, and very quickly her her hyperthyroid symptoms resolved, and she was taking some methimazole. And she was able to come off of that really in the next month. And so that was really exciting to see. Now, as we know with autoimmune thyroid, most of the time, it’s never just one, it’s never just hyper or hypo. Oftentimes, it’s a combo. Usually more if you’ve got hyper you also have hypo. And that has to do with once again, if you have these usual suspects, these toxicities, they are triggering the immune system to react to the thyroid in different ways. So then what we when we started working on the bartonella, so she ended up then being hypothyroid. And she was taking some thyroid, and then we started working on the bartonella. And over time now this is very much so the way that the the progress and I believe that the testimonial that she gave on my website was after we had been working together for three months, and so she had really good success after three months to give you a sense of the timeline. Now in terms of treating the bartonella with the herbs that we use, what we were having was that there was you know sometimes when you start going after These infection or oftentimes you’re gonna have a herxheimer reaction or a die off reaction where the infections are dying, they’re releasing their toxicities into the body, the detoxification pathways are clogged. And so the crap that’s being released is not able to get rid of, crap is a technical term, right? It’s a medical term. And the immune system is reacting. So you have some a bit of a cytokine storm. And so one of the things that we find is that this process really is a three steps forward one step back, where oftentimes, as you’re killing infections, you will feel a little bit worse, we fix that by opening up the detoxification pathways liver, kidney, lymph, bowel, and make sure that you’re able to get rid of these toxicities out of your body, and then you’re able to continue forward. So even though there are these stops along the way, where you’re three steps forward, one step back, eventually you achieve your goal of, you know, let’s say the journey is 100 steps, you’re eventually going to get there. So we went through that process with her. And interestingly, what I found not just with her but with other people is that when I treat bartonella, and people have thyroid issue, hashimotos thyroiditis, low thyroid, that they are generally able to get off of their, if they’re on thyroid medication, they’re generally able to get off the thyroid medication to an appreciable degree. So sometimes it’s completely off. And sometimes it’s, you know, cutting their dose by half or something like that. And that was, you know, that was really serendipitous to, quick side story, where the first time I learned this as I was treating bartonella, this person had low thyroid. They were they were on thyroid medication, and they call me up after hours, hey, I’m, you know, I’m sweating all the time. And my heart’s jumping out of my chest, and I was like, gosh, what’s going on? I can’t figure out, you know, and so I said, When was the last time you experienced this? And they said, you know, 10 years ago when I had graves, and I said, Hmm, I said, You’re hyperthyroid right now, why don’t we cut down your thyroid medication. And let’s see, sure enough, we were able to wean them off of their thyroid medication completely, as we ramped up the herbal treatment for the bartonella. So that’s a side story. But that’s, that’s the only time that I’ve ever been able to get people off of their thyroid medication. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that bartonella loves to live lives in two places, generally, in the body, in the skin, and in the blood vessels. And where’s the place that’s incredibly vascular, is the thyroid. And the other place you know, is in like, where you’ll see compromising people with bartonella is like in the tips of the toes and the tips of the fingers. So these people will be colder. And they will have oftentimes Raynaud’s or Raynaud’s type symptoms. And I think that this person Jody also had that Raynaud’s that also improves her sleep got better, we got rid of the muscle cramps and whatnot, it turns out that she also had mold. So we did, based off of the itchy ears and the itchy anus, that usually means fungus. And so that’s either mold or yeast. And so we did a stool test to look for yeast, we did a urine provocation test to look for mold. And she had mold. Turns out there was mold on her porch, she had the porch remediated, we got the mold out of her body, and all those symptoms went away. So it’s you just you just have to pay attention to the symptoms, you have to know what the symptoms are telling you, you have to confirm with those, the lab tests and success is very possible.

Diva Nagula 28:33
And it’s so interesting, and I really appreciate you, delineating the approach that you use. And this was like, there was multiple issues and root causes to her fatigue, and you had to really do a lot of digging to unmask these and eventually treat each one independently. And it’s such a different approach than traditional medicine, right, you know, traditionally would not have gone through these these various routes that you took to discover the root cause of these issues. So it’s it’s absolutely awesome. And you know, quite intricate in the process that you use to to treat this patient of yours.

Evan Hirsch 29:09 Thank you.

Diva Nagula 29:10
And you know, I actually wanted to ask this earlier, but you have a specific process, like a four step process that you use to treat these symptoms. Can you go into that a little bit?

Evan Hirsch 29:22
Absolutely. So I’m sure that you can guess and your listeners can guess what the first step is, but the first step is finding all the causes, right. So, you know, looking at the symptoms, and then if we need labs for the the 25% that need them, then we go ahead and get those labs. So that’s finding all the causes, then the first thing that we do in step two, is we replace the deficiencies. So really, when we’re looking at these causes, we can break them up into deficiencies and toxicities. So deficiencies are things that aren’t in the body that need to be, toxicities are things that are in the body that shouldn’t be there. And these deficiencies are things like deficiencies in hormones, like adrenals, thyroid, sex hormones, deficiencies in nutrients, like vitamins and minerals, deficiencies in mitochondria, energy center of every cell in the body, deficiencies and lifestyle habits. So not enough sleep, not enough water, not enough good food, not enough clean air, not enough movement. And so those are all the deficiencies. And so that’s where we start is by boosting those things up, because they’re really the fastest way to get people results. And everybody feels good, when they are starting to see results. Right, now, it just so happens that the toxicities caused the deficiencies. So it’s really this process is all about the toxicities, removing those and step four, but you have to boost those things up in the deficiencies in order to feel better first and in order to deal with the stress of removing the toxicities and step four later, you have to have that base. And this is step four. Step two, is really where a lot of functional medicine Doc’s are focused. So this is why people have success to a certain point, but then not beyond is that they’ve had their nutrients replaced, they’ve changed, you know, they’ve worked on their lifestyle habits, they’ve taken some hormone support, right? And they’re like, and I’m still not well, well, that’s because you haven’t gone in and worked on all the toxicities. So that’s the second point of it, you know, first thing that I want people to take away from this talk is that it’s all about the causes. The second thing is that it’s all about the toxicities. And if you’re not better, you haven’t addressed all the toxicities. So that’s step two. And then step three is in preparation for step four. Actually, the whole thing is in preparation for step four. But Step three is to open up those detoxification pathways. And so this is opening up the gut, making sure that you’re having bowel movements twice a day, it’s opening up the liver and the kidney pathways, because the more toxic you are, the more these pathways are actually clogged. It’s opening up the lymph, which is the garbage system of the body, it’s opening up the glymphatic system, which is the the lymph system in the brain. And you want to make sure that all of these pathways are open so that when you grab these toxicities, these usual suspects, and you pull them out of the tissues into the bloodstream, that they actually have a place to go and that places out. Otherwise, when you grab these toxicities, the heavy metals, the chemicals, the molds, the infections, they’re just going to get redeposited in a different part of the body. This is why you hear about side effects with you know, people who are doing like heavy metal chelation protocols or anything like that, where they’re like, you know, I had pain here, and then I had pain here afterwards that hasn’t gone away. And it’s just because you have to go through that step three process of opening up those detox pathways.

Diva Nagula 32:51
That’s, that’s fascinating. I appreciate you diving in and giving us that perspective in what I also wanted to switch gears and get your perspective and opinion on something. So there’s a lot of what’s called bio hacking, and everyone is very much in tune with biohacking and trying to optimize their biology just for benefit and gains and function. And to me, it’s counterintuitive to really go the biohacking route, when you’re not looking at the root cause of the issues. And I think you know, biohacking is great, you know, once you’ve optimized and fixed all the root causes of your problems. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

Evan Hirsch 33:35
I’m in agreement. I think that I see a lot of people who they’re like, well, I’m using sauna, I’m doing Beamer, PEMF. Like they’re doing all these different devices. And I haven’t seen people get well there, though, they’ll help with certain causes. Most of the time, though, if you have fatigue, they’re just gonna make you feel worse. You know, it’s just too much the body is trying to do too much at a time. And so you have to be more specific around what your intentions are. Because if you are using, let’s say, a sauna, and you have a number of infections, and you jump into the sauna for 30 minutes, you have the potential of killing off a bunch of infections, and you haven’t done step, you know, one, two, and three to actually figure out which infections you have, support the body to deal with the stress of killing an infection, opening up the pathway so that when you do kill the infection, you can actually get it out of your body. And so oftentimes people will feel worse, and then they’ll be like, Oh, that’s not for me. When in reality, it can serve a purpose. It can be helpful, but you have to use it in smaller doses. You have to use it less frequently. And you have to figure out exactly what your causes are.

Diva Nagula 34:47
Exactly. Well said. Thank you so much. And you also have published a book that’s out there.
Can you talk about that?

Evan Hirsch 34:55
Absolutely. Yeah. So I wrote a book that talks about about the causes. It’s called Fix Your Fatigue. It’s a best seller on Amazon. And it’s just kind of like a taste of the full program, which we have, as I mentioned, an online forum that works all over the world. But it gives you a really good idea about what potentially your causes are. Because that is the first step. And that’s, you know, that is really empowering, when you can actually step into that, realize your causes, because then you can see why you haven’t been getting better.

Diva Nagula 35:30
Exactly. And you also have a podcast that you started a few months back.

Evan Hirsch 35:35
I do. Yeah. And so this is much like this, this is a fun conversation where people can listen in where we’re speaking with experts about different aspects and going deeper on some of these different causes.

Diva Nagula 35:49
Awesome. Well, it’s actually, I really appreciate you coming on the show. And for folks that are listening, if they want to find more about you, how can they find you?

Evan Hirsch 36:00
They can find me at fixyourfatigue.com. I also have a free Facebook group where they can pop in and ask questions. And yeah, my goal is to help a million people resolve their fatigue. So please get help, find your causes. Because you don’t want to live a life of regret. I mean, those years that I spent in fatigue, I was really struggling and I don’t want anybody to struggle like that in this world again.

Diva Nagula 36:28
Yeah, fatigue can take over your life really quickly. And so I agree. So thanks again, Dr. Evan, for being on the show. And thanks for your your words of wisdom.

Evan Hirsch 36:40 Thanks for having me on.